2005-09-14

We don't know either

34 comments:

Agatha said...

Yes, we don't really know anything, do we?

4th Dwarf said...

Nonsense, wench, we know it's only 4 days until Talk Like a Pirate Day!

Corrie said...

Nonsense, pirate, we know that you really like an excuse to use the word "wench!"
My immediate concern is, will you self-immolate, and be done with it, as of the official piratical date? (Oh, please, please, please...)
Aggie: can we see your other eye?

4th Dwarf said...

Ahh, speaking of Aggie's eye, that right eye alone could pierce yer soul. t'only makes me sad that it's fixed on Blighty Bob.

Very interesting comments from Musie this morning.

I believe I know what she's talking about when she says Who wants to write when you know that certain people just read what you have to say in order to gripe about you? Fer my part, I try to remember these people are bitter, twisted souls who should be pitied.

Pool guy has made another clumsy move. But surely Friday dinner with someone you've just met is a classic date, an outing to explore the possibility of future intimacy? The question on my mind is - has he told 5M this because he'd like a relationship and doesn't want to waste anyone's time if the kids are a dealbreaker, or because he wants a fling?

As for the dude - It must have been hard for him all his life to be in these relationships thinking that his partners are always on the lookout for someone better than him. Especially as somewhere in there he knows that wouldn't be too hard to find.

And his latest appears to be leaving for nobody. Is it the Chair who said that was the hardest thought to bear?

Conch Shell said...

Okay, I know I've criticized some of you for always complimenting 5M, now that she's reading this. But I feel compelled to say: She shows a lot of strength, all this meeting of new men and willingness to go out and become friends/possibility of more, with them. And, how true, the strength to keep writing when there's people who just criticize. And she writes so personally, and almost defiantly continues to do so. There's a lot of strength there too, or perhaps, conviction for her Bridget Jonesesque art. Maybe she should try to freelance her life diary to the National Post, now that Eckler (married and boring), was canned.
And avoiding M, changing routines, keeping up with her health workouts instead of going the HaganDaz way.

As for pool guy, I kind of like him, but I wonder, how come 5M keeps meeting these men with many children. Is there some kind of unknown statistical reference here: perhaps many childrened men who separate are more likely to dress well, become fit, and hang out in downtown locales, longing for that je ne sais quoi?
The guys with just one kid are more likely to be out on the sports field with their buddies, or biking in the Gatineaus?
And Agatha, perhaps his paternalism can now be explained through years of dealing with children. Kind of cute.

Corrie said...

Actually, Muse can go out with Mr. 4-kids (Conch, you're right, why all these guys with way-more than the average number of offspring?), but she should keep in mind, for her own sanity --

If he really has 4 (goodness!), then it means 1 of 2 things. (1)he had a bad marriage and separated, but is a good dad. That means he's either paying MUCHO GRANDE child support, and will be for a long time (read; broke for decades), or he takes these four kids at least half the time when he's not working (read; tired, needs to focus on kids, tons of stuff to do with or for kids, even when they're not around, hardly any leisure time).

OR, (2)he doesn't pay much support (deadbeat?) and/or doesn't see much of them because he doesn't care. Maybe the marriage ended because he couldn't, in the end, handle the overwhelming responsibilities of parenting four kids. And believe me, I feel tired just thinking about it.

Either way, does she want to "get to know" this guy? If so, be forewarned, and think through what it means getting to know him. A lot of hurt may be avoided this way.

4th Dwarf said...

Pool guy lives in an apartment in 5M's building, 5th or 6th floor, I forget which, but I'm thinking that with 14' balconies it must be one of the 10 or 12 storey buildings. So it's not a penthouse apartment.

Don't know how big the units are in that building, but probably a bit tight for 4 kids and the Pool Guy.

Maybe he and his ex are doing the enlightened thing where the kids stay in the house and the parents do the moving.

And Conchie, meeting 2 guys with lots of kids isn't really a pattern.

Agatha said...

Conch Shell, what basis do you have for liking the Pool Guy? Don't tell me you fell for his don't-wear- sandals-in-the-rain/You'll-catch- your-death-of-a-cold (or whatever that was)comment. I have always suspected that fellow was hiding something. Four kids. What's with all the procreation? And since when has paternalism been "cute"? Now BOB, he is cute!

Conch Shell said...

To be honest, I suspect the pool guy is a sex addict. But I'm not going on much there, he could be a sweet guy. I think 5M should just be honest with this guy, tell him she's up for friends but nothing else, she'll also have to pay her own dinner bill (unless she offers at the end, after clearly stating this is just friendship, especially because they live in the same building AND for all those other already mentioned reasons, and yet he is a gentleman and says: Please, allow me, I invited you and I simply appreciate the talk.) She'll offer again, he'll take the bill, then she'll say, okay, thanks. I'll get the coffee next time. She should also not wear anything too sexy or tight. Funky or classy would be preferable.
Now, given that they're both going home to the same apartment building, at end of night, I'm not sure, a hug or handshake? I'm personally, given the scenario, more comfortable with a warm handshake (a little laughter thrown in acknowledging that this is the start of a platonic friendship that maybe but not likely will eventually turn into more).

4th Dwarf said...

A sex addict, Conchie? You say you're not going on much. Are you actually going on anything?

But you have brought up an interesting question. What is the protocol when you live in the same building? Do you step out of the elevator together at the floor of the lower person? Or hold the open door button and say goodbye until the alarm starts ringing?

Maybe it'd be easier for 5M to go to his apartment and then leave when it feels right. (On the theory that it's easier to get out of someone's apartment than it is to get them out of yours.)

coyote said...

Conch: you 'kind of like' PG, yet you 'suspect' he's a sex addict? Is that a legal substance in that hookah? These are very mixed signals indeed. Ya wanna explain upon what basis you make these judgements? Hypothetically, of course... I think we need some clarity.

Having made the acquaintance of one or two bona fide, diagnosed sex addicts in my time, I have to say that you really don't want to wish that kind of trouble on anybody. Well, maybe if it's two compatible sex addicts. But even that best-case scenario holds a world of potential hurt.

The Muse describes herself as a nice girl. Whatever strengths you believe she has, I don't think ya wanna be throwing her to any sharks of that ilk just now. Hypothetically, of course.

I'm 'kind of' with BandAgatha on this one. Although the Muse's dialogues admittedly place me at at a remove, through that filter I am catching whiffs off of PG that I can't place. They do not smell entirely light and airy.

At least she's got fair warning about the kids. And he gave it. That's good. And she understands Dude all too well. That's good too. She's dealin'.

Now for another matter. Dwarf. The Muse has testified to voting three times on the poll. We even know what option. Given all the crap you gave certain hairy-ass quadrupeds close to my heart, in an identical situation two weeks ago, aren't you gonna 'correct' these results, too? Just askin'.

Agatha said...

Dwarfie, "Maybe it'd be easier for 5M to go to his apartment and then leave when it feels right"...
Why would anyone need to go into the other's apartment at this particular juncture?

No-futons-please said...

Why Agatha! To check out the decor, of course. One wouldn't want to become friends with an unstylish person, would one?

Conch Shell said...

Okay, I'm admittedly not going on much here, but:
Indicators suggesting sex addict:
1, he is separated with four children (ergo, something wrong inside of him).
2, he casually engages strange women in conversation in elevators (too charming is often an indicator).
3, he sees her in her bathing suit, engages in conversation (this is yicky in its own) and then asks her out, and not to brunch or lunch, but a Friday night dinner.
4, he ignores the go-slow with someone rule when they live in your own building. (ergo, something other than intellect at play)
5, he's paternalistic
6, he's a lawyer.
7, advance phone call stating 4 kids is part of the false charm offensive.

INDICATORS HE'S a NICE GUY:
1, awkward in elevator, so he teases her about inappropriate footwear.
2, sees someone he likes and doesn't want to let that get away through inertia, so he asks her out on a proper date, not some brunch or walk thing.
3, is a professional, a lawyer, so he's smart.
4, lets her know he's got kids, after his suck in air and ask her out to dinner big move, but before the event happens.
5, is being realistic. (5M says: why do men assume it'll be more than friendship, he's saying: I asked her out on a date, we both, all going well, want something more than food from this).

Corrie said...

Oooops, Pendragon just posted another bit of reality on Musie's blog:

"If one aspires to be a "great writer," they should be open to criticism of their writings and know how to spell."

Ouch! But read it here, because we know that comment won't last long on her blog. Delete.

Of course, Pendragon him(her?)self probably meant "ONE should be open to criticism..." You know, in order to convey consistency in the sentence structure.

I'm sure Pendragon's open to that criticism.

I must admit, I'm kind of in agreement with the need for tolerating criticism myself...

Otherwise, you risk coming across as a bit of an editing tyrant, no?

Conch Shell said...

Personally, I only want that criticism when I've asked for it (or am at their mercy because I'm being paid by said criticizer.) And I hate when people get all hung up on spelling and grammar, as if being good at that makes one a good writer.

6th Apostle said...

I kind of like it when 5M gets feisty with her commentators. But then, I always loved watching school yard brawls. I should know better, I know. Not sure if Pendragon is necessarily a spammer but it's 5M's blog, and she's free to do what she wants. I don't think that post would have been treated the same on our blog, other than Pendra opening himself (or herself) to a bit of the ole ESI wrath. But, as I said earlier, I like watching a brawl.

4th Dwarf said...

Getting back to Pool Guy, 5M was there and I wasn't, so I shouldn't second guess her instinctive reaction to his comments.

But could it be that he was exhibiting a sense of humour when he suggested she could catch a cold going out with wet hair in 26 degree Celsius weather?

And then when he saw her again, it seemed the funny thing to do would be to follow up on the acting like someone's mother routine?

And as for the sex addiction signs. It's true, he started it with the wet hair remark, but 5M initiated the conversation in the pool.

[source]

6th Apostle said...

I agree with Dwarfie that PG was attempting to be funny. Now, I don't know what were Musie's top three values she has in her Lavalife profile, but I think she has a sense of humour. I sometimes wonder whether she gets it when someone is pulling her leg. The tone of her elevator incident is difficult to interpret. I sensed she thought his comments were lame. But were they lame because she felt they were lame attempts at humour, or were his comments lame because of the channelling her mother thing?

4th Dwarf said...

Nate, I didn't say anything for you to agree with. I asked some questions.

coyote said...

Humour very often doesn't translate well to paper, does it? Too much can rely on inflection or expression. Even lousy puns. But in the Muse's kind-of-dubious description, I think we may see at least seeds of doubt.

Corrie, nice snag. I believe you've hoisted the vile Pedanticdragon by its own scaley petard. Live by the pen, die by the pen! Woohoo!

Conch, I'm not totally buyin' your nice guy arguments. Too many of 'em can be turned inside out -- flipsides of the sex addict attributes.

And I want to to loop back for a sec to our long-running discussion, Conch. I'm not saying the Muse is not strong. Or for that matter, not smart. She is both, and eminently. But lotsa strong, smart people make bad relationship choices. She knows she has done that. She probably suspects that she has subconscious reasons for doing so. Unbuttoning those li'l suckers from the mind's hidden strata has little to do with strength.

Something else needs to come into play, from the get-go, otherwise one (dare I use that particular third-person singular form after Corrie's neat evisceration of Pedanticdragon?) just bangs one's head against the metaphorical wall, ad infinitum.

With M, she expended much strength and a lotta smarts trying to make something totally inappropriate for her, work. Bad choice in the beginning, and there were warning signs, even then... catch the drift of this sweetgrass smoke I'm blowing, yet?

Corrie said...

Coyote: you may indeed use whatever grammatical structure you choose. And spell everything wrong too, if you want. I never hold furry critters up to human syntactical standards. Even ones with REALLY CUTE EARS.

Hey, and just one sentence worth of really self-referential gloating: was that comment yanked fast, or what?

Pendragon said...

Corrie: Many thanks for correcting my grammar. I welcome criticism. What doesn't kill me only makes me stronger. Again, many thanks.

4th Dwarf said...

PenisLizard:

What doesn't kill me only makes me stronger?

You are full of crap.

Shall we see if having a lung or half your liver removed gives you a better chance of qualifying for the Olympics?

Or are you talking about emotional health and figure that anyone who suffers from depression or post-traumatic stress is just lazy?

Conch Shell said...

Jeeze, aren't you a grumpy dwarf today.

4th Dwarf said...

You should see what I've been sending to my anger management therapist instead of posting here.

Agatha said...

Corrie, while I was delighted to read your deft parsing of penis-lizard's comment, I'm not sure we should be posting comments that have been deleted from Musie's blog. Do we need to have an Ethics Committee meeting on this one?

Corrie said...

Ah, but I care not.

Conch Shell said...

Our list is getting longer and longer. Same time, same place everyone? Wait a second, 5M has turned off her comments. There will be no more commentators. So if they need to comment, this will be the only place.
What criteria should we hold them up to?

coyote said...

We'll discuss that. We may even decide soemthing. But here's the image I cannot get out of my head: Short, guy, dressed in armour of flattened pop cans, stumping across the field of honour, brandishing a rusty barbecue skewer at some vaguely obscene-looking pink iguana. Did I get a contact high from Conch's hookah, or something...?

Conch Shell said...

Hey! I make 31. Isn't that the most comments of the blog so far for one posting?????
What the heck, Coyote?

poemsrus said...

Guys, Guys....don't you see? Pendragon is the (l)ower (c)ase (p)oet!

4th Dwarf said...

So, Poemsie, you're suggesting that in addition to using capital letters, the lcp is disguising himself by using a lame makes me stronger cliche? and telling 5M to get a job when he'd know she's already got a teaching load comparable to a full-time prof?

That's what they call a "creative" theory at Pirate school.

poemsrus said...

Stranger things have happened boys! Deception with a capital "D"! (or in this case a lower case d)